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Plato vs. Thucydides: Conflict in Ideals (1) It is a commonly assumed fact that the classical ideals of physical beauty, intellectual finesse and democratic governing, closely associated with Western civilization, derive out of ancient Greeks existential psyche. In its turn, this can serve as the proof that the overwhelming majority of citizens in Greek cities-polices, during the course of Classical period, were physically and mentally healthy individuals. This also explains why the ideas, expressed by politicians and philosophers of this era, often bear a striking resemblance. The validity of this statement can be easily substantiated when we analyze Plato's Republic and Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War, as philosophical and historical accounts of the time, which has been traditionally referred to by European intellectuals as golden age. Given the fact that these two works were being written two millennia, before discussion of such topics as eugenics, biological inequality of people, and the harmful effects of racial mixing became a public taboo, it would be wrong to refer to these two books as such that only have historical and literary value, because by reading Plato and Thucydides, one can gain a lot of factual information, in regards to the essence of socio-political dynamics in every particular society.
In fact, Plato provides us with the insight on what would be the ideal form of government - aristocratic democracy, as it is not peoples social status, their religion or their political affiliation that makes them who they are, but solemnly their biological makeup. We need to understand that all ancient Greek scientific, cultural and aesthetic notions remain absolutely veritable, up until today. While reading Plato and Thucydides, one gets to experience authors extraordinary wireless, since they seem to be fully aware of what makes people tick, in psychological sense of this word. This is because, even though ancient Greeks might have lacked the empirical knowledge, they nevertheless knew that everything has to do with everything.
They would never doubt that persons physical appearance somehow relates to his or her existential mode. They knew that, if a particular country saw booming births of boys, it was only the matter of very short time, before such county would become engulfed by the war. They knew that molten gold can be easily mixed with other metals and that it would be simply impossible to rid such gold of impurities and to restore its metallic nobility, afterwards. Thus, both Republic and History of the Peloponnesian War are best discussed as works that allow us to get a better understanding of what Western metaphysical rationality stood for, before it was being corrupted by degenerative political and religious doctrines, associated with the rise of Christianity, Marxism and neo-Liberalism. In this paper, we will point out at similarities and differences between Plato's and Thucydides approaches to political governing, while emphasizing on authors supreme ability to grasp the essence of political processes, of which the majority of modern politicians are being deprived. (2) The main motif of both works is glorification of citizens freedom and responsibleness, as such that derive out of each other. Plato and Thucydides praise the principle of political equality, but they understand that such equality cannot be forcibly imposed upon people, because it would contradict the laws of nature.
Plato suggests that hierarchical principle, upon which society is based, cannot be disposed with; however, it is only every individuals objective abilities and talents that alone correspond to his chances of gaining social prominence. According to Plato's spokesperson Socrates, a healthy society needs to be ruled by the caste of philosophers, because their ability to operate with abstract categories enables them to put the well-being of society, as whole, above citizens secular agenda. The caste of guardians insures society's inner stability and protects countrys territorial integrity. The caste of workers creates preconditions for citizens living standards to continue to improve.
In fact, Plato does not make provisions for women to be exempted from military service: The guardians of our state are to be watch-dogs, as we have already said. Now dogs are not divided into hes and shew do not take the masculine gender out to hunt and leave the females at home to look after their puppies. They have the same employments the only difference between them is that the one sex is stronger and the other weaker (Plato, Book V). According to Plato, it is individuals belonging to civilized humanity, which stands above his or her gender affiliation. He also discusses morality within a context of existential functionality. Housewife, for example, is not being entitled with moral right to have her opinions affecting political process, regardless of how smart she might sound, simply because of who she is.
Likewise, soldier or politician is not allowed to make executive decisions, when it comes to cooking meals, for example. According to Plato, only biologically equal citizens are the subjects of democratic governing, because their equality is a fact and not some abstract idea that does not correspond to objective reality. In ancient Athens, citizens were allowed to vote, regardless of their social status, while slaves were being deprived of any civil rights whatsoever, simply because they were the products of racial mixing, imported Egypt, Persia and Phoenicia, which prevented them from ever being able to integrate into Athenian society. Pericles funeral oration, cited by Thucydides, contains many ideas, in regards to the essence of democracy, as the form of governing, which sound very similar to what Plato was striving to promote in Republic, because author discuses citizens right to vote as something that derives out his sense of social responsibility and his perceptional idealism: It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few.
But while there exists equal justice to all and alike in their private disputes, the claim of excellence is also recognized; and when a citizen is in any way distinguished, he is preferred to the public service, not as a matter of privilege, but as the reward of merit. Neither is poverty an obstacle, but a man may benefit his country whatever the obscurity of his condition (Thucydides, Book II, Ch. VI). Only in culturally and racially homogeneous society may democracy realize its full potential, because only the members of such society can truly relate to each other, in variety of different ways, which in its turn, creates a situation when citizens associate common good with immediate practical benefits. Both, Plato and Thucydides were well aware of this, and since there was no politically-correct censorship enacted, at the time, they used to express their ideas openly. Both authors did not hold any illusions, as to artificial nature of the concept that we now refer to as international law.
Thucydides Melian Dialogue ridicule people who prefer to live in imaginary world of peace and tolerance, while being unable to face the fact that, in the game of international politics, the stronger player is always right. After having heard Melian arguments against occupation of their city by Athenian army, which referred to such occupation as immoral, Athenians replied: Your strongest arguments depend upon hope and the future, and your actual resources are too scanty, as compared with those arrayed against you, for you to come out victorious... It is certain that those who do not yield to their equals, who keep terms with their superiors, and are moderate towards their inferiors, on the whole succeed best (Thucydides, Book V, Ch. XVII).
Plato and Thucydides consider war as legitimate form of political activity. However, unlike Thucydides, Plato criticizes prolonged wars between Greek-polices as such that can only benefit a third party: How shall we treat our enemies? Shall Hellenes be enslaved? No; for there is too great a risk of the whole race passing under the yoke of the barbarians The war is not against a whole nation who are a friendly multitude of men, women, and children, but only against a few guilty persons; when they are punished peace will be restored (Plato, Book IV). The history has proven the validity of Plato's suggestion. For example, ancient Sparta had simply exhausted itself through participation in never-ending wars, which is why it had ultimately lost a geopolitical competition on Peloponnesus Peninsula, despite having won the majority of military campaigns against different enemies.
The same applies to Western nations that fought against each other in WWI and WWII, the ultimate outcome of which was the fact that the number of White people was being reduced from 30 % to 10 % of worlds population. Given the fact that Thucydides was more of a politician then philosopher, it comes as no surprise that some of his conclusions, in regards to what prompts people to act in the way they do, lack depth, when compared to Plato's. While describing the consequences of plaque in Athens in 430 A. D. , Thucydides refers to survivors anti-social behaviour, as the result of them ceasing to fear gods: Perseverance in what men called honor was popular with none, it was so uncertain whether they would be spared to attain the object; but it was settled that present enjoyment, and all that contributed to it, was both honorable and useful. Fear of gods or law of man there was none to restrain them (Thucydides, Book 7, Ch.
XXIII). Todays historians know that one of the reasons why Athens became engulfed by social chaos, during the course of epidemic, is because many slaves were being left without supervision, as a result of staggering death toll among Athenian citizens. In its turn, this instigated their appetite for looting, just as it happened in New Orleans, in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, when Blacks suddenly realized that they were at liberty to allow their anomalistic instincts to actually define their behaviour. In his book, Thucydides does not describe the physical appearance of those who stopped fearing gods, as he considered it to be irrelevant. Plato, on the other hand, never misses the chance to draw a line between humans and sub-humans. In fact, he draws a direct link between peoples physiology and their behaviour, while implying that only citizens of the best stock should be allowed to have their children fully entitled with full political rights: You have in your house hunting-dogs and a number of pedigree cocks.
Do not some prove better than the rest? Do you then breed from all indiscriminately, or are you careful to breed from the best? ... The best men must cohabit with the best women in as many cases as possible and the worst with the worst in the fewest, and that the offspring of the one must be reared and that of the other not, if the flock is to be as perfect as possible (Plato, Book VI). Thus, it will not be an exaggeration, on our part, to suggest that Plato was actually one of ideologists of National-Socialism. In fact, twelve years of Nazi rule in Germany was nothing but an attempt to adjust the ideals of ancient Greeks to the realities of industrial era. (3) As we have mentioned earlier, the difference between Plato's and Thucydides outlook on history, philosophy and politics is only skin-deep. In his book, Plato strives to come up with comprehensible concept of what the effective form of government should be all about.
As true intellectual, Plato was well aware that, in order for a particular form of political governing to be stable, it must correspond to the existential psyche of people, among which it is intended to be utilized. Only highly idealistic citizens are capable of managing themselves, without having to face the prospect of punishment for breaking the terms of social contract, on their part. In its turn, such their idealism is genetically predetermined, which is why, every democratic society must practice eugenics, if it does not want to turn into despotism, as the logical consequence of process of racial marginalization proceeding unopposed. In History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides comes to basically the same conclusion, but authors lack of global vision, regarding the issues, raised in his book, prevents him from refining his thesis. Therefore, we can refer to the fact that Plato's vision of perfect society is being described as aristocratic, whereas Thucydides concept is being discussed as apology for democracy, as the proof that many modern historians simply do not fully understand the subject of their professional interest.
Both, Plato and Thucydides promote democracy. However, unlike Thucydides, Plato suggests that this political concept cannot be discussed as something that has value in itself, but only as the form of governing, specifically designed for White people. Therefore, we can only marvel at Plato's analytical ability, as something that allowed him to define socio-political provisions for the existence of aristocratic democracy, long before empirical sciences had proven the validity of his ideas. Bibliography: Plato Republic. 2008.
Project Gutenberg. 23 Sep. 2008. web Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War. 2004. Project Gutenberg. 23 Sep. 2008. web
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Research essay sample on Plato Vs Thucydides Conflict In Ideals
